>> can you course correct me or at least flesh out the distinction that i drew there between voter fraud on the one hand and election fraud on the other? >> you've got it just about right. voter fraud involves individual voter, somebody who might be voting twice, somebody who might be coming in under a different address. and there's never been a systemic -- proof of systemic voter fraud. in fact the non-part sen center said there's more of a chance of getting hit by lightning. >> could you analyze mr. kirk's reference in that tape to the minority precincts. he called them vulnerable precincts. what does he mean by that? vulnerable to who and why? >> we'd love to know because it's one of the most cynical things we've ever heard and we asked him to explain what vulnerable is. he's chosen precincts that are heavily african-american, low income, unemployeded, the most vulnerable people there and people who are vulnerable to