can't conceive of elements in science being at all related to punk rock. and what i do in the book is point out there's actually a lot of similarity in the sense that both of them challenge authority. and that's one thread that runs through punk music, and i think it's made it a mainstay in american culture. and it's the one thing that threads through science as well. >> and explain that, because you talk about anarchy, of course. whenever i hear the word i think of anarchy in the uk and cop cars being turned upside down on fire. you talk about a different type of anarchy. an anarchy in science. >> the sense that, if we want -- as scientists to believe that the world is an ordered place and that it's governed by natural law, it's kind of the opposite idea that any kind of lawlessness or anarchy could be
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