i don't want a national i.d. card. that's not necessarily the same thing. >> why not? >> again, a lot of people in this state and other states don't trust the federal government. there shouldn't need to be a national i.d. card. there's no reason that the state cannot in a parallel fashion enforce the current immigration laws, and that's what this bill would have done. >> are you telling me there's no illegal hiring in arizona? >> there's a lot less than there used to be because we have an employer sanctions law that is in place. >> are all the people working in your state are working legally? >> i didn't say that at all, chris. what i said is we need to actively enforce the law, and we need to penalize those people who are getting jobs or who are hiring people illegally or who know that they have false papers. >> okay. i know. okay. but obviously this i.d. card system is not working and you don't want to make it any tougher? >> i don't agree with that. i don't think a national i.d. card is the answer. >> fine. let me go to congressman grijalva, are you for some kind of national recognition of when people are in this country legally or not, some way that an employer can safely know he or she is hiring somebody legally and that is, of course, the main magnet for people coming to this country?