and even movie tickets. just say get "dragon tickets". >> he lied a lot, but it was very interesting because he didn't lie about one thing. he said no collusion with the russian hoax. >> he speaks in a code, and i understand the code because i've been around him for a decade. chris: michael cohen and president trump with very different takes on what the president's former fixer said this week. we're back now with the panel. ben, michael cohen -- as the president said -- he said a lot about campaign contributions, about potential bank fraud, insurance fraud, tax fraud, but he had almost nothing to offer when it came to alleged collusion with the russians. so in the end, how much do you think he hurt the president? >> well, i don't think that he actually told uses a lot that was new, but it was a circus, and it was salacious, which is why it got as much attention as it did. certainly entertaining at various points. i think that michael cohen indicates where things are going