doesn't back off on it. that is why the american people felt that he was the right candidate because -- >> trish: julian, i think that that is spot on. i think biden would have been a real fair race against donald trump. frankly, i think that hillary clinton was probably one of the worst people that they could have picked. again from a lack of personality standpoint. you get some others out there. gosh, bernie sanders. i'm nothing but a red-blooded american capitalist and have no use for the socialism stuff, but at least he's been consistent, right? at least he feels one way and he is consecutively a month after month year after year. >> reading into the polls, what i see here is a divide within the democratic party, you have the blue-collar workers, little bit more moderate. these are the voters that were tempted to vote for him, and they did. on the other hand, you've got this progressive wing of the