i will never ever quit. the same time trump sent signals he would like mattis to move on. and when he couldn't change the president's mind on syria and afghanistan, i think at that point it was mutual. i can't remember another cabinet officer who was portrayed as being as indispensable as this one. gillian: which is interesting. we have gotten to the point where jim mattis is perceived by the media as an all tar american hero. in 2016 when his name was first circulated. it was jim mattis, "mad dog" mattis. he's good on the ground. but is he strategic enough. does he have enough policy making experience. suddenly because he and president trump parted way, he's an american hero. howie: heroism can be