from law school. i'm not sure if he's aware of the separation of powers but the presidential pardon is a constitutional power. the reason it was implemented was so the executive branch could have a check over what were perceived gross abuses of our system. a president can do that. having said that, joe is right. he nailed it. i'm sure that richard will try to make the case otherwise. there is no predicate crime. zero evidence of collusion, no less conspiracy to collude or any crime at all. if mueller was really doing his job, which he's not, he would be investigating the real russian collusion which is collusion between the hillary team and russians. there is real evidence of that. >> laura: richard, it came up tonight that they are upset about manafort's ukrainian business dealings. which i guess go back some years involving a lot of different people, including one russian