i mean, i don't think that they are believable. >> chris: jason, it seems to me the real story here is just the fact that it seems increasingly both with this story, with the release earlier this week, of that snippet of a conversation between michael cohen and donald trump. seems more and more likely that he is going to turn states' evidence, that he is going to become a cooperating witness for robert mueller and his investigation. and to have your personal lawyer and your fixer now go to the other side, it can't be helpful. >> and this breaks on top of what we already knew about misleading statements coming out of the administration about this meeting regarding the statement that donald trump dictated to his son. he said he didn't. then his lawyers turned around and said yes, he did do that. so, i agree with a.b. there are a number of people making statements here that in the past have proven to be less than credible