upper middle class backgrounds, kethledge doesn't come from that. he came from a lower class background. he's from michigan, outside of the coast. and he didn't go to -- he went to a very good school but not an ivy league law school, a harvard or yale, so it provides a sort of diversity that some people think would be good on the court. julie: i want to get to judge thomas hardiman before i let you go. after a phone interview with hardiman on tuesday, president trump called him again on thursday. not bad two calls from the president in a week, obviously an indication he was still in the running heading into the weekend. still the president hasn't made up his mind. looking at these four, what do you think will ultimately lead him to make his decision which i'm told should happen tomorrow with his announcement on monday night? >> hardiman also served with one of president trump's sisters and she is a big fan of him, so that certainly i think is probably a bonus in his eyes, but again, i think kavanaugh is the most likely pick for the only reason for the main reason i would say is that, you know, that law