$34 billion in goods are now subject to new charges at the border when they come from china. the administration says it's already eyeing more goods to slap tariffs on. here to discuss for what this looks like economically and politically, ceo matthew swift. nice to see you. >> good to see you. leland: this from the kato institute, they wrote trump is treating trade policy as though it were a real estate deal, he says, where the goal is to beat your opponent, step on his throat, and humiliate him. fair characterization? >> no, i don't think so. i think that this president is willing to do things that previous administrations have not done, to really think and understand about trade policy today and how historic a lot of these shifts in the negotiating process that the president is obviously started, he's using tools in the tool box that previous presidents haven't necessarily used. so i think that's an unfair characterization because i don't actually think that's what the president is doing.