call this a war. we can call it that if we want to, i don't think that's help. essentially, this is what china has been preparing for. for china, this is part of its strategy. arthel: yeah, well -- >> that's right. but for us i think this is our test case. and if we have the guts to stick with it, i think this is what we should be doing to see exactly to test china, to see if china itself can also continue to play this game. i think, frankly, the chinese system may be too fragile to stick with it and really to -- i think that the united states, frankly, is probably strong enough to withstand and to really stay with it. arthel: so is there a geopolitical risk or reward at stake for the u.s.? >> well, the risks are very high, certainly. but if we can stick with it, then the rewards are also very, very high. arthel: and, of course, we don't know exactly what's going to happen because you have got the potential fallout, real-life impact on soybean farmers.