to testify. and more over, there's just no reason to handle it now. you just wait and see where the chips fall. and if some point later the president wants to pardon, he can. as far as being unprecedented, george bush sr. pardoned the day before the trial. it's been done. there's no question it's the inherent power the president has. there's no real check on it. i just can't get that outrage though. the answer to it is a political answer, which is it was done publicly and the president can suffer blowbacks if he does it. >> and we had a myriad of instances where the obama justice department -- we had eric holder held in contempt of congress over the documents, i think it was fast and furious. there's no moral outrage.