is, pardoning everybody, but that was before all of the indictments that came out. at this point in time, they would not be -- paul: he's attempt to go cover up even though there's nothing to cover snup. >> that would be the perception. paul: okay, when you suggested pardoning, you were saying everybody, that including hillary clinton, anybody involved in clinton e-mail case, basically sweep everything of this issue and put it all behind it? >> no, no, entirely behind but one caveat, we were suggesting at the time letting congress, have congress seriously investigate with nobody being able to take the fifth, the idea to treat political exercise and not judicial exercise. paul: right to the bottom of it for the american people, tell us what happened, what about the claims in the president's lawyer's memos that came out last week about the obstruction issue and whether or not in