don't even hit the gray areas, just stay away. >> sandra: interesting. that's not the only thing he is in hot water over. high travel expenses as well and raises to a couple of staff members. >> the travel expenses i understand. i see conflicting information are not out of line with his predecessors. that has to be run to ground. i've seen some reports say it was excessive and others say it was in line. >> sandra: senator rand paul said we need him as the epa administrator. the president has a big trip in west virginia. always good to see you. thank you. we have still a big show for you ahead. moments away deputy white house press secretary hogan gidley will join us on "america's newsroom" as well as house homeland security committee chairman michael mccaul. big guests coming up on a quickly changing morning. >> leland: a lot to ask hogan about as it goes back to scott