someone who did not get indicted but went through the process is ted olson, the supreme court solicitor, former justice department official who when he was in the reagan government was investigated by an independent counsel, became a very famous supreme court case. it was a nightmare for ted olson and the trump team has reached out to mr. olson to see whether he would join them. he declined. but nonetheless, there's an awareness that dealing with a special counsel like robert mueller is a dangerous enterprise. on the other side, there is donald trump who thinks he has been wronged and he doesn't want those kinds of lawyers selling him out so-to-speak. i think he's brought in someone like joe dejenev to be the guy who is going to lean on the system to make sure trump's personal interests are represented and the lawyers dealing with mr. mueller don't make a deal that puts the president in jeopardy. >> paul: kim, let's turn to some