those folks in the white house, they did not think the discussion was a big deal. suggesting the times overhyped the reporting. they did not dispute the chain of infants involved. >> shepard: captain harris in washington. let's turn it may not be a big deal, alex, but it kind of is, because the presence lawyers speaking about "the new york times" at a popular restaurant. everyone knows him with a handlebar mustache. speaking of a matter that is confidential is anything known to man. >> and you know from time and to see, you have to be careful of saying anything anywhere. so-so, it is an interesting story and turn of events. especially when they talk about something so sensitive and so internal as a legal debate about how to perceive with this russian investigation. it does -- the story really does pull back the curtain and a