getting an icbm, it seems there is a public red line. the reason you haven't seen clear testing is they have nuclear weapons. the next step is miniaturization. on top of an icbm is a little harder and takes more time, the next test will mean they both have the missile on top of it. leland: you don't do that, maybe they would irritate china if they launched a missile with a nuclear warhead on top. how do they prove that? what is the next thing to look for before they launch something like that? >> a next nuclear test. and testing what -- >> it is miniaturized it. some knowledge of what -- how