unsteady ally in that regard. >> there is merit to what he says, but the way he says that, saying that president obama choked when it came to the russian interference and hacking and blaming the intelligence community and going after the iraq war and then therefore president bush was problematic. you don't want to airing your dirty laundry out while you're travelling overseas. david: these are new times. >> new times for everybody. david: jessica, let me switch course a little bit. president obama is clearly trying to establish himself as the leader, if not of the democratic party, at least a strong movement within the democratic party. do you think he'll succeed? >> i certainly do think he'll succeed. he's hugely popular-- >> by the way, democrats were asked this week who the leader is. >> i know. david: they hemmed and hawed and didn't give an answer. >> didn't you hear it. david: i would say president obama, wouldn't you say. >> i would say president obama over bernie sanders, that division needs to go and bernie