$20 trillion our deficit is approaching. something has to be done. is this the right thing? >> you know, sandra, what's really scary about that figure is it doesn't capture all the ways in which the government is indebted. all the promises we've made to all these americans over the generations. all the guarantees we've made to things like pension programs and everything else. if you look at our total indebtedness, it's real easy to get depressed. one thing nick mulvaney was right about. if we can't get our economy growing we've got to get this economy growing. we've got to add jobs. we've got to make sure that without a growing economy, you're never really gonna take care of the huge debt problem. >> sandra: the budget director speaking at the white house earlier, trying to clear up some of this. simon, when you look at the proposed cuts over the next ten