2,000 years ago, the solution then was awol. the chinese built a wall, english built hadrian's wall, israel was built a wall, they work. why wouldn't it work in arizona? >> good many reasons. one is cost, tucker 310,000 men will make years to mug mankind has been building around walls and things. a robust array of -- we can come up with a better solution. i am absolutely a proponent of securing the border. my fear is we are continuing this dialogue of a wall, awol, awol, which too many of us doesn't seem credible. and in that this court, we are losing the more serious discussions about how to better secure our borders at a lower point, more effectively. that's my concern. it's a public safety problem, human rights problem. all manner of transnational crime is coming where the border is.