also spending? everyone is for strong defense. i wonder whether we looked at what we're spending our money on right now. >> the fact is -- you're right. within a department of defense, we need to have major defense reform. not just in the acquisitions system but so much of the budget surrounds business-like functions. we need to bring in genuine business expertise to help make these functions be more effective than what we are. we have huge real estate holdings, huge motel-like holdings. we have one of the largest medical enterprises in the world. they can have significant savings if they were run as if they were a commercial entity as opposed to having the military running them. we know how to fight wars and we can get the capabilities to fight those wars. we don't know how to run business-like functions very well. yet that's a significant portion