if they're already rich, they don't need more money. >> we got the 20 trillion in debt with high taxes, it's about time-- we got 20 trillion in debt with higher taxes and ridiculous regulations. it's about time we change the trajectory at this point in time and put it back in our hands. here is what i agree-- i wish it to be done, but can't. >> here is where you've got to agree with ben. we can't do everything he wants. yes, i hate to say it, a bunch of bond traders do control the economy. if bond yields spike dramatically we're going to snuff out any recovery, it's not going to be worth it. >> i don't think so. i think there can be a lot of economic growth that comes about because of lower taxes. my point earlier is that donald trump wants these tax cuts, he's pushing for them. he's getting pushed back from republicans and that's what's going on. he's trying to use the bully pulpit. >> he's getting pushed back? >> he is. >> there won't be a border adjustment.