afghanistan, pakistan, he said, the difference was, he was a silent observer. he is claiming that he sat in these high-level meetings never said anything, was there to be a communicator coming to take the information out. the is, we don't know, there is this allure that bannon as the president, the acting president, forcing trump's hand. we don't know how much of an acting role he has. >> bret: wasn't that the case with karl rove george w. bush? they were portrayed by either party as being these evil figures who were really making the decisions. >> there has been reports, as we know, president obama skirting the national security council and dividing policy with the valley of with someone independent of that advisory co. president trump, every administration has the ability to form a national security council the way that they want. there are some guidelines but