star on all of his coins. and so when you say in a nativity story that the real star is, in fact, over a manger in bethlehem and a little peasant jewish boy is the savior and lord of the universe, that is a dramatic counterclaim to the message of roman imperial theology. >> i think these details become food for thought. i also agree with the expression "the devil is in the details." >> reverend a.r. bernard is the pastor and founder of the christian cultural center in new york city. >> to me, the birth of jesus is the miracle and mystery of the incarnation of god. we're taught to question. we're taught to think things through. but we're taught to never allow these discussions to take away from the basic faith, 'cause that's what it is. it's a matter of faith. [ men singing ]