if you violate the law -- >> including the government or just the people? because the government was violating the law. >> he broke the law. snowden broke the law. from the feds's perspective if you mess up you fess up. right now what he's doing is ignoring the fact this is a criminal issue not a political issue. he's treating it as if it's a public policy issue. the feds don't care. they can wait as long as they want. if he comes into the united states, he's going to jail for life unless he does a deal. >> as individuals did he help any of us? >> well, as a public policy matter, that remains to be seen. he could have done it differently. he could have handled it differently and take an course of action that didn't violate the espionage statute. >> he could have said look at this one document. look at what they're doing and be done with it. >> he's made his bed and got to live with. >> it if he doesn't come back to the united states there's no issue. there's no extradition treaty. >> i don't see many people lining to go to russia unless you violate the espionage act. >> if he could be in on the