itself. what is that all about? >> well, it's about that there's not very much interesting about that debate, right? right now you would expect the democrats don't have much sizzle, right, in their skillet these days. you've got hillary clinton. you've got self-described socialist senator from vermont bernard sanders. and then a lot of undercard. and for that -- that doesn't drive a very interesting discussion. now, if joe biden were to make his announcement in time for this debate, it would be a moon shot. it would be a huge area of discussion. people would tune in to see what they had to say. soar far, it looks like it's not going -- the skillet will be sizzle-free. >> you don't think he's going to do it, he would actually make the announcement on that day? >> he might. the great thing about joe biden and one of the reasons every reporter wants him to get in the race is he is unpredictable an he is interesting to cover. could he do that? yes. is he more likely i think to wait until november to see how far -- to see where the actual bottom for hillary clinton is?