little bit like mexican cartels in that that's their trade? >> it's a bit of that, sure. it's territory. it's power it's influence. it's intimidation. i don't think biker gangs are all that much different than traditional street gangs. crypts and bloods fight over red and blue. biker gangs fight over the different colors they wear. >> are there lawful members of the gangs? i know the justice department recognizes many of these as crime as i understand cat. are there people who join it and they join it intending lawful purposes and having lawful goals? >> i think there is hundreds of thousands of bikers out there who are not criminals belong to civilian clubs that are not criminal. the 1%, the outlaws, they are the dangerous ones. they're the violent ones. and not every person had who wear as bandito vest or hell's angel vest is out there murdering or raping or