things but in public they were saying supportive things. bill: what do you think about brennan had to say? is he trying to have it both ways? >> he is definitely trying to have it both ways. think one second what john brennan is trying to say it makes no sense. on one hand he is saying, look, we don't know there is cause effect relationship between the use of these techniques and valuable information that was provided. but if you peel that back a little bit we could know that you had detainees formally resistant, uncooperative. they were put through the enhanced interrogation techniques and cale out on the other end and were later cooperative. brennan would have you believe that was a mere coincidence. i think what brennan is trying to do is reconcile the president's view, the president's decision to stop the use of these techniques with the senate's complaint that they didn't work at all and all of that against a backdrop that he knows that they worked and that the cia believes they worked. bill: he still needs people to work for them and under him at a critical time.