people who today said i never heard about it are saying why are you only waterboarding three people? it kept america safe at a time when our country was at great risk. and, i mean, just take one example. had you senator graham who said what happened was we kept them long term and they began to talk to us. they only began to talk to us when we broke their spirit and made them cooperative. it wasn't the length of time they were in gitmo. techniques where they began to cooperate. zaid captured in 2001. two together led us to ksm. sue bade da is one of one of usama bin laden's top associates. ramzi bin al shibh is the guy in charge of post 9/11 planning and ksm is the loortd of leader of the 9/11 attack. all of that came about as a result of these techniques. >> karl, nice to talk to you. >> star nfl quarterback hurt