>> this is a -- >> while we're talking i want to take a live shot out of oakland, california that is coming in now. you can see protests have expanded beyond new york city. that's a live shot. we'll go down to the ground there in a few minutes. dr. baden, i saw you wanted to weigh in on this discussion. it may sound technical and like semantics, if one hold is legal and the other is illegal, that's a big distinction. >> that's a big distinction but in this case doesn't make a difference to me. when we're looking at autopsy findings, whenever we call chokehold, headlock, there's enough pressure on the neck to prevent the blood flow you talked about. >> right. >> to prevent air flow. and pressure on the chest and face so that when he's saying i can't breathe he's telling the truth. >> he said it eleven times. >> and he died of not being able to breathe. >> but from the standpoint -- i understand there's an autopsy, you're going to do this. >> right. >> but if a grand jury's looking at this legally and a police officer's trained and he's told this choke is legal, this one