johnson represented to a movement on the ground. the same with abe lincoln. he never belonged to an abolitionist party. so do you think john brown did the right thing by hurling his entire life and his family against slavery? he did. >> the position that you chose, two presidents who are commanders in chief, who signed laws, bills into law and abide by, not in all circumstances but expected to abide by the rule of law, something that you have often flaunted in -- >> both presidents were responding to movements that didn't abide by the rule of law. the black freedom movement broke the law consistently and that was part of the strength and beauty of it and the black freedom movement grew and evolved every minute, every day. the kind of store we tell about