but fact that she was even thinking she could send this to exam, she's a tax-exempt specialist, but sending it over to an audit was way over the top. bill: why did this become public? >> well, it became public because there were some e-mails that were released, and senator grassley -- although it could have been deemed private information -- he signed what's called a 6103 waiver, that's the privacy waiver, and that allowed the house committee to produce the senator grassley e-mail. bill: so this is 2012. was that the same period they were looking for e-mails that were apparently lost, destroyed and the hard drives are no longer available? >> i think they started finding those again right after -- in '12 because it was '09 through april '11 that were the big losses which is when the whole scandal p developed. bill: because you start to wonder now, and the mind reels, and you wonder, well, what other sort of communications went out? and on this particular e-mail,