about the dramatic effects of hydrocarbons, i go back to my earlier point. the 1,200 coal plants that are going up around the world. and so there is a hypocrisy here, neil, that i think deserves a national discussion. >> if you're going about a situation saying we're all in on it. then the people who aren't quite buying what you're saying aren't invited to discuss, maybe you're a little out on it, that is not very fair. that is not very balanced. >> let me say -- >> real quick, john. >> let me say this about executive behavior. executives must, if they're going to be successful, listen to all parties. they have to understand disparate views. i couldn't have succeeded if i didn't listen to people who were differing in opinion from me. and who evaluate the differences in opinion. what you don't want surrounding you are a bunch of people saying what you want them to say so that you can --