it changes incentives for a lot of people of the we heard that from a lot of folks on the street, said that very thing. they talked about carter options, if they had a choice, oftentimes they might choose the v.a. for specialized care. but if they go to someplace more efficient, they might choose that. >> but at many government agencies, it's 4:00 o'clock, out the door. how does that change? >> you heard a couple gentlemen felt like they were treated like a number. they were treated like the problem. why are you trying to come back and get this care? come back five months from now and be grateful for this. these guys are grateful. they're not victims. they just want the v.a. to work. we didn't pick baltimore 'cause it was a terrible v.a. this is an average facility, not under investigation. yet this is still what we heard, which is another demonstration of how system wide this problem is. >> that was really just a general v.a., just a normal -- >> run of the mill v.a. in baltimore. they issued a statement, hey, we're not under investigation. someone said once i get in there it's great, but i'm waiting five