i mean, do we really -- do they really need to be unionized and is that part of the problem? is that why it's taking some of our veterans so long to get health care? >> this very been unionized fair long time eric. government has a high rate of unionization and i don't see how that's related to the on going problems here. what we got is a scandal in which somebody was keeping secret lists in terms of giving service to people. quality isn't the issue. access is the issue and it seems to me like you want to beat up on unions. i don't get it. what do union versus to do with it. >> to quote juan williams, i can't believe what i'm hearing. i mean, i think quality is of some interest to all of those people that died as a result of the scandal. >> nobody died. >> do you have any evidence that anybody died? zero. >> oh my gosh, juan. >> we have too many vets to begin with. we treat our soilders like sacrifices.