can do certain things, and whites can do certain things over them, but they are saying that everybody has a even playing field. >> stay there. because admittance into the state universities. >> yes. >> and stay on that one specifically, because are there racial quotas in the schools? and are there allowed to be racial quotas in the schools? >> well, quotas is not something that the courts are big on, and they will allow different programs -- >> what is the difference? >> well, the court is looking at here whether or not the voters can pass this, and -- >> no, what is the difference of what you are calling affirmative action practices and the quota? help me out here. is there a difference? >> look, in the situation, what happened is that the voters said, no more affirmative action in universities in michigan, and then some of the civil liberties unions said, no, the voters can't decide, the federal courts have to decide what is fair and what is not.