we now have stage 2 of what the irs is doing with these latest new regulations they've proposed that would completely shut down the political speech of these same organizations. >> all right. so let's say that it happened. there's enough evidence to say that it happened. and we have plenty of anecdotal evidence from tea party people themselves. we tried, they gave us the run-around, they audited us. dr. ben carson got audited. now, somebody had to order this. somebody had to make it happen. lois lerner, obviously her attorney feels she's got some criminality problems or she wouldn't take the fifth. if lois lerner didn't have any criminality problems, why would she bother? maybe she's shy. i don't know. do you see it that way? >> i do see it that way. particularly because remember, before she asserted the fifth the first time she said, "i did not do anything wrong" but then she went ahead and asserted the fifth amendment. >> okay. so suspicion falls on her, and then if it falls on her and they