you become a victim. and it becomes an us versus them type of mentality which i know you talked about earlier. john: to raise people's consciousness about affirmative action, i once ran a racist bake sale. john: cupcakes for sale. my priceless said agents had to pay $1.50, white's $1.00, latinos and blacks just $.50. >> that is not right. >> you have to be out of your mind. >> that is stereotyping. john: it is. >> that is not right. john: it is the same principle. >> you got their attention. let me give you a quick -- john: we had a conversation people were saying, i had not thought of it that way. >> frederick douglass was born a slave, escape slavery, self educated, involved in politics, an adviser to presidents, he disdained affirmative action and special treatment. so if he was someone that could do it and be successful, anyone