taught and my father taught. they're not there because i want this to be a part of the family business. >> right. >> and when you hear the stories about tullian, believe me, he was bad. >> okay, now. let's get to the interesting stuff. >> there was no judgment by billy graham. >> well, franklin said that too, that his father was very patient, waited for him until the day that he came and was saved. he tells that whole story. >> both my grandmother and my grandfather were remarkably unconditional people, unconditional. i mean, there was never any sense from either of them that we will love you and accept you if you behave. >> do you have a sense of who this grandfather was, or was he just granddad to you? >> i mean, i didn't know anything different. but as you get older. >> you become aware of it. >> you start going to crusade, evangelistic crusades and you see 40, 50, 60,000 people showing up to hear your grandfather preach, he has always been daddy bill to me.