grandfathered in. >> usually a 25% change. that's a big change. >> a $5 change in the co-pay, now it is not grandfathered. >> you have to ask the question how many planks do you change in a boat before it's a different boat. that's the same thing here. we had a plan. we argued about it -- >> you didn't tell the americ >> no, we did. we grandfathered in the plans. >> you said if this plan is in effect until march of 2010 you can keep it. >> that's what it says. >> mr. capretta? >> grandfathered plans were allowed -- >> i didn't hear the president mention the word grandfathered in his pledges. >> people who knew the law knew the president wasn't telling the truth. the grandfathered clause was too narrow. they wrote a regulation intentionally trying to get people out of the individual market. they want the people to go into the exchanges because there's a lot of people in the individual markets. the point of the exchanges is to close down the