of, you know, flailing and vote-taking? >> well, if you look at it from john boehner's perspective, he has a conference that is a bit stubborn. they stick to their principles and they really don't budge. and he has to show them that, give them a chance to let out the steam, to pass these bills and then let them fail in the senate and then he can go back to the conference and say, look, we have tried. we have to try something else. obviously didn't work. >> jon: there is a huge desire on the part of many republic cans to deflate the president obama care proposal and that's what they're getting at here, isn't it? >> well, if they don't pass and the government shuts down and you are not deflating obama care at all. it continues. mandatory spending. just shutting down the government doesn't hurt it when we wake up tomorrow. the healthcare exchanges will continue. people will be able to sign up on the web site that the white house has set up that doesn't stop it but it does show that they are still willing to put up the fight. this could be just a preview for the debt ceiling fight coming up in a couple of weeks.