we were thinking oh my goodness they must be thinking about second degree or manslaughter. after all, why would they take so long to come back with this verdict. but when i heard the verdict read i don't think there was a tipping point about premeditated. i believe that they always thought premeditated. i think maybe the confusion or the disagreement might have come when they were trying to determine felony murder because when it was read, there was a split regarding felony murder. now, in reality, it doesn't matter because all 12 found first degree by premeditation. not all of them found first degree by felony murder. i think that might be. >> bill: you have to explain that to me because i don't understand that i'm sure some of the folks don't either. felony murder, what is that? >> no problem. what it is the state charged first degree murder by two ways. either premeditation or felony murder. we know what premeditation is. felony murder means that he was killed during her committing a felony. so when she stole that gun from him, if she did, or