they swept fund the rug back then. >> bill: i don't want any b.s. >> that's not b.s. >> you don't know who was sweeping. >> people are more open about those kind of things now. people would not talk about it. >> bill: either born in a marital situation or you are not. what do you say. >> talking about time frames here. point to the late to mid 1960's. linden johnson with the great society. the development of the massive welfare state and the massive government spending that goes along with it. >> bill: didn't that have to happen? >> that is the culture of dependency. that didn't happen to happen there were conservatives beary goldwater arguing the other way. >> bill: barry got his butt kicked big time in the 1964 election. if you suddenly say to millions of african-americans and other minorities, all right, we're going to let you have full citizenship, all right, after decades of deprivation, you don't think the government has a responsibility to develop social programs to help those people? >> that was part of how it was