norm siegel former director of the new york civil liberties union who i have had many wars with over the year. good to have you here, gentlemen, both of you. i don't think there is any one who has any problem with the united states defending its citizens, defending the homeland. do you have a problem now that the so called white paper or justification for the drones have come out with the justification itself? >> let me give you two points here that are important. number one, i think the president as commander in chief has the authority to use drones u.s. citizens that have taken up arms with the enemy, al-qaeda. for instance, if bin laden were a u.s. citizen i don't think any of us would have hesitated. the problem with the justification, two things number one the wor imminent. they redefined the phrase of when the high level target is actually imminently doing something and it is an elastic