patti ann? 20 times stabbing him and shooting him in the head? that self-defense? i don't think so. patti ann: doug, what about that? is the jury going to buy she needed all of that to stop this guy from hurting her? >> it is very, very hard. set up the legal test. if you're presented with deadly force, you can respond with many could men's rat deadly force. is there some argument theoretically that you know, you needed all that continue ages? not really. i think honestly, i think she is facing uphill battle. back to what lis is saying. conventional wisdom when you have a witness who lied twice it will be withering i will call it cross-examination. there is one exception. that, lis, you find this interesting. when a cooperating testifies before the government and lied previously denying the involvement. >> there is reason for that. >> i did do it and he did it with me. juries will believe that. but when you have a defendant with two exculpatory versions that are false and now