ran for office, saying you wouldn't raise taxes or revenue, and said, well, i care more about this country i do about a 20-year pledge. you've taken heat for this. i want to give you a chance to explain. >> my difference with grover, it's pretty simple, the simpson-bowles plan that came out that said we're going to address the long-term debt of this country, recommended that you eliminate all tax credits and tax inclusions in a major tax reform package. the gang of six that i was a part of, still a part of, followed that recommendation. we think you ought to eliminate all of that. that will generate about $1.2 trillion in revenue. not new taxes. revenue. then you decide whether you're going to add the mortgage interest deduction, charitable deduction, other things back in there. so the question is, what do you do with that revenue that's been generated? we owe $16 trillion. i think that you got to pay part of that revenue toward that debt