>> how does a guy, erin, like armstrong beat that? how does he beat that or does the tour defrance not care? >> it's interesting because for years i thought it had to be very sophisticated way to beat test. and after reading some of the articles that have come out in the last couple weeks, some of it was trial quite simple. as just not answering the door and pretending they weren't home when the testers came. but they also had much more sophisticated ways if they did have to give a sample. it seemed like oftentimes they had a lot of heads up and -- >> they would get substitute samples. did you get tested? did they test you? >> i was tested quite often. i was tested in competition, but also at of competition testing that dara mentioned where they come find you at any time. >> what do you think morally about this kind of cheating, 'cause we know it happened in baseball. we know happened in football. now we know it happened in cycling. what do you think morally about a guy who cheats? lance armstrong last year made