40 years so you are not going to rattle joe biden. >> chris: vice president biden and congressman paul ryan trying to set tax increases ahead of their debate on thursday. i don't know how important it is terms who is actually going to win. i have to say i'm really looking forward to the ryan-biden debate. on one hand an old school liberal and a young gun conservative. i think it will be a real culture clash. kim, what do you expect? >> i think what you just said, what joe biden had going for him when barack obama went into the debate expectations were huge he was going to mop the floor with romney. joe biden does not have a high expectations problem. people think of him as the gaffe guy. i think that underestimates joe biden. what paul ryan said is true he he has been doing this for 40 years and he will be on message. he has something else, is too.