loopholes then it's a much lower effective tax rate. >> that is absolutely the case. i think that is what is frustrating for a lot of people looking at this and they are reading stories about some companies with a net gain in taxes because they have, you know, very smart cat about thes and tax lawyer -- smart accountants and tax lawyers and they do it legally. reuters did analysis of the annual reports of the 30 companies in the dow jones/industrials average and found, i believe, 13 of them paid a lower effective rate than the 28% that president obama proposed in his budget. it's crazy. tax rate sounds, to most of it, it sounds like insane amount of money to pay in your corporate pocket, if your effective rate is down, one was 2.7%, then that is not fair to other companies as well. if you take the loopholes out of it, you absolutely could lower the rate and not reduce revenue. >> chris: having said all of that, president obama now proposed reducing the top corporate tax rate from 135%,