debate. we did an interview with them in october for fox news sunday, gave him the whole first half of the show, did a very good job and was making the case, hey, look at me again, i'm a better person, i thought he did a good job in our interest view, and about three days later he had the famous debate, the o orb p ops debate. an was finished after that. bill: does that drive home the point that if you want to play on the national stage you need to practice. >> reporter: absolutely. bill: the places to practice is iowa and new hampshire and you go there for a year and you workout your answers and work through the issues so when the big, bright lights are on there and chris wallace is sitting across the table with you you can sit him with that 12-second answer that gets a headline as opposed to what perry did when he stumbled on it a few times. >> reporter: we saw this twice. we saw this with perry and four years ago with fred thompson. this is a full time job and you really need to take a couple of years and hone your arguments,